health care is a right not a privilege
no matter the cost
period

if it was your child or your mother and you couldnt afford it — you would change your tune when the hospital throws you out because you cannot pay

having access to health care shouldnt be like shopping at Neiman Marcus

and the war is draining us — period.

Social Security: $590 Billion

Defense: $550 Billion

Medicare: $400 Billion

Unemployment and Welfare: $370 Billion

Medicaid: $300 Billion

A couple of points.

Medicare serves about 40 million people at a cost of $400 Billion, or $10,000 a year per person.

Medicaid serves about 60 million people at a cost of $300 Billion, or about $5,000 per person per year.

The population of the US is 300 million. Thus, the combination of Medicare and Medicaid serves 100 million, or one-third of the US population.

Taxpayers provide medical coverage for one-third of the population at a cost of $700 Billion a year. Thus, if we covered the entire population, a fair estimate of the cost would be $2.1 TRILLION.

However, we know the actual cost would run far higher. Why? Because the quality of coverage would approach the Medicare level, at $10,000 per person, rather than the Medicaid level, at $5,000 per person.

We also know that whenever a service is “free” to the recipient, it is over-used. Therefore, a government-run universal healthcare plan would lead to lots and lots of long lines for service. Business as usual for government services.

Anyway, your comments are well taken…it’s cool. Here’s more from the mind of Obtusmo:

As far as YOUR theology old friend, for someone who appears to be agnostic you’re sure beginning to sound like a Bible thumper. I never thought I’d see the day you’d be telling me how I aught to behave, much less that you’d attempt to use the Bible to do it. I have to admit, that last zinger did give me a chuckle, though.

But seriously, I never said Jesus was an S.D.; that’s all you holmes. It’s a popular misconception of liberals…lol…that “love thy neighbor,” as defined by Jesus, is mandated through the Legislative and Executive power of the United States Government. Such a scenario was never modeled by the King of Kings, who said among other things, that we should render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar’s and unto God, the things that are God’s. Your “WWJD” politic is a nice sentiment and it’s one I share, but it’s actually inconsistent with the God/man who came to liberate us from authoritarian structures, which in socialistic fashion are endeavoring to relieve us of personal responsibility. Evidently, you want to make “love” compulsory. In so doing, you deny autonomy and therefore personal responsibility. That’s NOT love, fairlane; that’s tyranny.

And you’re only half right on the budget supplementals, holmes. Once those numbers are locked in, they are added to the budget and refigured for the following year. Long and short of it, even with the supplementals to date, social spending is $100 billion above Defense spending, and I suspect, after the new supplementals are added in, social spending will still be the number one cash cow of liberals and neoconservatives in the new year.

As far as your assertion that the money for Defense is being hidden in some other coffer, well….you got me there. You’ll have to provide a citation or two for that. Although I suppose I could always appeal to the same line of reasoning and assert that the numbers of uninsured are trumped up as well. But that wouldn’t really make much sense, because the federal government is the agency providing the numbers in both cases. So, I guess I’ll just stick to my guns until I see your references.

Finally, I’m still waiting for a conclusion which follows from the premise of, “unaffordable health care.” Let’s be frank, if health care was “affordable,” we wouldn’t be having this discussion. There’d be no talk of national health care and get this, there would still be a blue million uninsured. The whole scenario just sounds like another attempt to create utopia on the planet. But don’t worry, when it fails (and fails miserably) I won’t say I told you so.

Peace out

First, budget supplementals are not counted in the overall budget because they don’t know how much they will need.

Second, military spending is disguised. They can count it as spending on “Energy,” but the money is going to the military war machine.

Third, Jesus was not a Social Darwinist. Your personal philosophy and that of your Savior do not jibe.

Our personal philosophies stem from our personal experiences. If you want to understand the world JW, you have to understand yourself first. Then things begin to make more sense.

You know I’m no “Bleeding Heart Enabler,” but it’s so much easier to judge others, and their lives than it is to look at our own, and see how similar we all really are.

That’s too scary.

And yes, you should without a doubt crosspost this piece. If this doesn’t spur a discussion (Possibly heated) nothing will.

Also, If you don’t believe the numbers that’s entirely up to you, but where do you think the numbers on uninsured came from? The same source. “10 million uninsured” is a government stat as are all the numbers I quoted to you in my comments and that still doesn’t change the fact that the dinero ain’t there.

With all due respect, I think once again we’re just equivocating on the issue. What makes one stat valid and another invalid? It would appear, only our preferences are the final arbiter of truth.

I’ll go ahead and cross post this if you like.

Thanks, you’re still the man.

Aardvark Wiktinstein

The idea that Reps are “Fiscal Conservatives” is a myth. Bush being the latest evidence.

Also, I believe Bush has asked, at least twice now, for supplementals for Iraq and Afghanistan totaling over 200 billion. If I remember correctly, this money is not included in the official budget, as this money cannot be predicted.

And,

As you well know, military spending is often disguised within the budget, which makes it difficult, to say the least, to know exactly how much they are spending.

And,

Let us not forget the ridiculous contracts the government has with the defense industry that include incredible mark-ups, guaranteed payments, whether they deliver or not, and no way to recoup the money. In other words, tons of money is wasted. The F-22 being a prime example.

Why do your kids matter to me? Well, because we live in a society, and what happens to your kids can affect my kid. When a large segment of the population is suffering it drags down everyone else, as I explained in my previous comment. We pay regardless, and I’d much rather pay upfront than afterward.

Human life has value, weapons have none. The idea that they make us safer is iffy at best. We are constantly in conflict somewhere on this planet, and in the case of Iraq we are in a conflict we chose because the Neo-cons believe in U.S. “Manifest Destiny.” The more weapons people have the more likely they are to use them. People like to try out their new gadgets.

The religion thing was strictly for you. Jesus fed the poor, he didn’t tell them to fend for themselves. He also said they are the ones the rest of us should watch over, and assist when and if possible. Whether you follow that or not is entirely up to you.

If what happened to my step-father happened to you, it would devastate not only you but your entire family. I know you’ll say, “We’d make it.” But how? You couldn’t come up with $250 grand in ten years, much less four. (Neither could I). It would bankrupt you, and God knows what else would happen.

Personally, I see nothing wrong with helping people in that situation, and the best way to help is to prevent that from ever happening because one way or another we end up paying, and the cost for the uninsured is more than for those with insurance.

The Committee on Ways and Means has an interesting article about how hospitals charge uninsured patients much more than insured patients. http://waysandmeans.house.gov/hearings.asp?formmode=view&id=1224

When I was in the “horse pistol,” they charged me 30 duckets for a single Ambien. That’s 900 bucks for a month’s supply. Oxycontin doesn’t cost that much, and it’s a highly abused narcotic. (About $400 per month). My total drug bill was over 5 g’s, and I didn’t ask for shit. In fact, after 5 days I declined the Dilaudid because it was making me sick.

I know you and that Wingnut T.L. believe the Church should step in, but that’s another issue altogether. People shouldn’t have to convert to be “Saved,” if you know what I mean.

You’re wrong on this issue J.W., but that’s okay. You should definitely cross post this at JT.